staff, dr. darren deering new about it, because it was their plan. >> i am asking you, maybe you directly, sir. did this or did this not happen? >> i think what we have here, drew, i think there's some confusion amongst our staff. when we came on as a leadership team in 2012, the practice at that time was that they would schedule new veterans that were coming in for care, way out into the future. sometimes a year, sometimes 14 months. what we did is we took the patients scheduled way out into the future and put them on this national tool, ewl, electronic waiting list, so when we had an appointment came up, if a veteran called next week and cancelled their appointment, we could pull a veteran off this list and get them into that slot, so it actually improved the probability of the veterans getting an appointment sooner. there were some folks that did not understand that, and i think that's where these allegations are coming from. >> so when i'm talking to sources inside this hospital who literally in tears are telling us that patients have died waiting on these lists, those people are confused?